TS250/1 - 5 speed

[jam23a30]

Mick, the TS clutch is a good bit of kit but takes a bit of getting your head around as it basically works backwards with pressure from the release mechanism in the case pushing the clutch to allow the plates to slip. It was frustrating for me as you don't get to try the clutch action until the engine case is all in place which means removal again to access.

Two things I learned trial and error and a tip I picked up were

First measure the end float on the clutch and install the correct thickness shim behind to ensure the primary drive gears keep meshed properly. The process is described in the manual and if your assembly is out of spec you will get a nasty noise from the primary gears when you pull the clutch lever, could save the frustration of stripping it all again ask me how I know!

second the replacement clutch friction plates are cheap enough but often poorly finished. You may need to work on the teeth to ensure a good sliding fit on the centre. They also tend to be a little on the thick side so a full set of new friction plates may mean the clutch pack is too thick to allow proper operation. You may need a mixture of new and used friction plates to get the right pack height. There is a picture of a special tool in the manual to check operation of the clutch before fitting to the crank. I've not seen one or used one but guess this is the way the factory got them right first time!

Tip to lock up the engine when tightening or loosening the clutch is slip the end of a bit of 10mm rope down the spark plug hole, just enough to stop the piston going over TDC. I was worried when I first tried this but get the piston well up towards TDC before you thread the rope and it has work fine for me several times

Hope this helps, Andy

[mick]

Hi jam23a30
Thanks for the info I appreciate it very much. It took me a little while to understand how the clutch functioned, but I have my head around it now and I have been busy checking the end float after making a adapter to hold the metric dial gauge. The end float is just over the 0.1mm limit at 0.12 after buying a new 2mm shim and its the best I can do with the range of shims available
I had had so much trouble fitting the clutch plates into the welded up clutch toothed rim and clutch body that I bought both items new and had intended to build the clutch this way with new driven metal plates as the old ones were anything but flat.
Unfortunately on testing the fit of the new clutch taper I found it to be only contacting at the top of the shaft so I have some expensive new bits I am not going to use.
The plates seem to be made by stamping them out and have a sharp edge and slightly rounded edge on the other side so I fitted all the plates sharp side down as I slid the clutch centre/primary gear down through the internal splines of the drive plates one at a time to locate them all. Now that is done I will assemble the clutch when I have sorted the 6mm ID washer business and if it is ok the use standard ones as the original ones have a smaller OD and were possibly ground flat .
Ta

[Blurredman]

Where in the country do you live? Maybe someone could help?

[mick]

I live in Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
Everything should be ok except for the end float problem which could be an issue and the washers under the clutch pressure plate. I hope to solve by using some shims with an ID of 6mm and an OD of 12mm and a 1mm thickness.

[mick]

Well, i have made a little progress over the last week and the clutch is now assembled and fitted with only a small amount of swearing adjusting the clutch mechanism after I made a guide for the 11mm setting above the case business out of the old screw in housing for the clutch cable.
I have another problem now as the circlips for the new piston will not fit into the Gudgeon pin bore in the piston. The old ones fit great but the new ones are a little bigger in overall diameter by about 8/10 thousandths, but the wire gauge is the same.
This is a pain in the bum as I am a fanny hair away from finishing the engine. Anyone had a problem with circlips before or where to get better quality clips from
Ta

[Blurredman]

I've read that some aftermarket circlips can be an issue going properly in the recess.

If I was in your situation I would just use the old ones.

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[mick]

Cheers guys. I sent a message to the supplier a few days ago but have had no response yet, I have examined the old clips and they look in great condition with no wear at all and very good spring tension, so they have not taken set or lost their temper by the look of it. Reusing old clips is not a thing I usually do, but needs must and we all have to take a chance sometime, I will fit them tomorrow.
Can I ask if anyone has had their carb vapour blasted and had any problems with it, I assume it must be fraught with potential problems.
Ta

[Puffs]

My carbs just look their age and that's OK with me.

[mick]

That's the way I feel for the most part as I like the bright new aluminium look of a new engine and I hate the possible problems from engine damage due to contamination and the heart break it brings. A friend went against my advice and had his T140 Triumph frame grit blasted contaminating the oil in frame chamber and destroyed the new built engine in a couple of minutes, and you could not trust the frame after that.

The crankcases of the MZ were left as they were and only cleaned, but I did have the barrel, head and two outer engine covers vapour blasted because of oxidation and they look much better than straight bead blasting.

[jam23a30]

Mick, I have had good results with an home ultrasonic cleaner for carbs. They are cheap enough on the net and often sold as jewelry cleaners etc. You need one with a heater function and have to buy some cleaning fluid to use with it. Prices vary massively and I guess "you get what you pay for" in the long run. The beauty is it cleans all the internals as well as externals.

no chance of blasting medium in your engine with this method but you do need to rinse with clean water and air dry once cleaned

Hope this helps

Andy

[mick]

cheers Jam23A30
I have cleaned the carb with a 10 LTR ultrasonic and fluid for non Ferris metals but it left the carb a bit grey and chalky, so I tried another fluid with the same results. The good thing is after 1.1/2 hour in the tank its very clean and I will just leave it like that.

The engine is now together and I am just determining that the compression ratio is correct using the solder method and setting the timing. I have one of the micrometre type thingamabobs with the rod down the middle but I had to make a new rod as the original was to short and didn't touch the piston at all.
The rod I made has a flat milled along its length and is hardened silver steel ,so that the brass tipped grub screw can be nipped just hard enough to slide up as the piston goes over TDC and not drop back down, then nipped much tighter and the micrometre turned down the 2.5 - 3mm to stop the piston as usual. I think this will be ok as the rod should give a perfect TDS position.

[Puffs]

Following a biased and flawed moderator choice (someone posting aggressive personal attacks is rewarded, while my technical posts are removed - behind my back & without any justification!), I have withdrawn from this forum.

[Jay Bee]

Micrometer or a calliper? I guess the latter. Anyway, no comprende, señor, don't quite understand what you're describing - pic maybe?

Straight forward enough to me. What mick is describing is an adjustable piston stop.

[mick]

That's right.
The micrometre head has a M14 plug thread with a plunger through the middle to reach down to the piston, so it can move up to find TDC. The problem with mine is that the rod did not reach down enough so I made my own and included a flat, then I hardened the rod as it is silver steel so the new brass tip grub screw (not shown) can slide without dropping metal swarf into the engine. If the rod is just nipped enough to stop it falling down as the piston goes over TDC it can be tightened more and the micrometre head turned down 3mm. When the piston is brought gently back up to the stop it should be spot on.
Hopefully !!
Here is a couple of pics